Hi Shawn,

One of the things I like about SAWStudio is its flexibility. I enjoy setting up things as you have here (funny enough, for the same reasons) and I sometimes prefer that level of control to the 'unknown' processing of a bundled MB plugin. As much as the Paragr. EQ and Levelizer may not be the plugs to use, there are others out there that lend themselves very well to this.

There are times when we are looking for a particular coloration or effect from doing certain things. A custom-tailored MB setup may be just what we need for some projects. It can be personally rewarding when it works! What I like about this method for MB comp is the ability to mix various plugins. First, with the right EQ we can try different slopes for the crossover, simulating a 1st order MB such as Tube-tech or going for a high order crossover for more of a surgical approach. Then of course you can use different compressors/limiters on each band for effect. I call this fun and powerful. Try putting this together in the hardware world!!

Bob's points are well made and there certainly is no denying the convenience of a MB plugin.

You may already know this but one important thing to be aware of when attempting MB comp and crossovers is the phase shift of the various filters. It is crucial that you 'design' your MB setup using pink noise or similar test signals and view the response on an analyser (such as Freq. Analyser, as you have done). When the various 'bands' are combined at the output (or speaker system), they will not always sum properly at the crossover points. You can vary the slope and/or type of filters AND flip the phase where necessary to dial in the flattest response at the output. Voxengo actually has a phase adjusting plug-in that can work well for very fine tuning.

Of course, another option is to use linear phase EQ's too. Even so, it is still important to check the response of the whole package before processing music with it.

How did the speaker crossover work out??

Listen well,
Dave.

Shawn wrote:
I will e-mail Anwida about a couple of things, besides a nice multiband comp, it would be nice to have another quality native SS reverb unit.

I'm definitely interested in that also. Last communication I had with Anwida they stated that a new native SAW reverb (and not just a port of their DX Reverb2 but something new built from the ground up) was on the drawing board.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Hi Steve, and Bob,

I'm by no means saying that this is even a "good" way to do this task compared to using a dedicated multiband plug, I just did a little test, and found it to be a do-able thing, at first I was mainly interested in seeing if it was possible to eliminate the need for a hardware crossover when using SS as a virtual console in a bi-amped live rig, then that led to to this.

I will e-mail Anwida about a couple of things, besides a nice multiband comp, it would be nice to have another quality native SS reverb unit.

I agree with Steve here.

The Levelizer is not designed as a multiband compressor, it is designed as a full band compressor with a band adjusted trigger, which can do some wonderful things in the area of complex threshold triggering.

The thing to be careful with multiband compressors is the fact that the full signal bandwidth is being broken down into multibands which then have to be smoothly re-assembled to get back to the full range signal... this can be tricky and many of these designs use FFT to convert back and forth between the frequency domain and the time domain... I personally have always felt that FFT conversions can leave some un-natural sounding artifacts.

While your fancy patching and routing is quite creative, I feel you may be better off with a compressor designed to do the banding that you are after without adding objectional artifacts.

In many cases I like the effect of the Levelizers back to back with each one triggering on a different troublesome band of frequencies. A true multiband compressor actually starts to alter the overall eq of all the instruments in the mix when it limits within one band, because every instrument may have frequencies in that band that are now being compressed because of one loud instrument crossing the threshold... The Levelizer will compress the full signal in that loud range, which can be less objectional in many cases in my opinion.

If you really want one instrument controlled, you would be better doing it with full band compression in the MultiTrack before its blended with other instruments.

Bob L

Shawn -
Cool to see you've worked this out - but it just seems a little bit more unnecessarily complicated than just patching in say, the Waves C4 (although obviously a bit more cheap than the 4 bills Waves wants for their plug). Although I guess with the multi Levelizers you can automate changes in SAW.

Anyway - I prefer to just patch in a single plugin and be done with it.

A really nice VST freebie multiband comp I've found is at http://www.ismusic.ne.jp/slim_slow_slid ... mp_1_2.zip
(make sure you also install the msvcr7.dll available at http://www.ismusic.ne.jp/slim_slow_slid ... svcr71.zip into your windows system folder to make this plugin work)

I also like the db Audioware Multiband Limiter for some stuff too - $39 DX from http://www.db-audioware.com

I begged Jon Marshall Smith for a SAW native mulitband comp for a long while - but it seems he never found an algorithm which he was satisfied with the sound for the crossover points. He's been pretty busy with his band the Mosquitos of late (yup - that's them playing in the background on all those Intel commercials) so plugin development's kind of fallen to the wayside for him for the time being.

I also mentioned that a SAW native multiband comp would be the jammy to the Anwida guys and they seemed to have some interest in this - but I have a feeling they would need to see sales of their SAW Native Modulation pack jump up before they tackle another SAW plug. Anyway for those who'd like to see this happen - it might be cool to send them an email if you have interest in this like I do.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

After doing a bit of experimenting to see what could be done with the Levelizer plugin for multiband compression, I came up with this..

If you assign all of your used tracks and return channels to outputs 2, 3, and 4, and un-assign them from output 1, you will now have everything going to 3 output subgroups (virtual), all of which feed into a single "main mix" output (hardware).

Insert a Studio Frequency Analyzer into into the post fader FX patchpoint of the main mix output.

Label the 3 new subgroups as LOW, MID, and HI, then insert both a Paragraphic EQ and a Levelizer into the pre fader FX patchpoint for each of them, put the EQ first in the chain.

Use the Paragraphic EQ to limit the bandwidth of each subgroup to your desired crossover points, (you can mute or solo the subgroups as needed, and see the results of your tweeking by using the Frequency Analyzer), then use the Levelizer to setup your desired compression for each subgroup's "new" frequency range.

You can also assign any reverb/FX returns to their own subgroups, or directly to the main mix if you don't want to compress them.

I use another Levelizer on the main mix output's post fader FX patchpoint for peak limiting of the final mixdown.

If you are using SS as a "live" console, and have each subgroup assigned to it's own hardware output, it should be possible to use this method to eliminate the hardware crossovers from your rack, and go straight to the amps for bi or tri amped setups.