John F wrote:Thank you for the thoughtful reply, Phillip. I should have also prefaced my question by saying that buying old, cheap equipment is not for the project at hand - it's for my own system to prove a "proof of concept" to the doubters. A working copy of SAC, an 8-channel audio interface , and a working faderpack would be enough to show how the system could work. As you suggest, the real system, if it were to become a reality, would be built with a bigger budget and much better planning. Thank you for your insights!

John Francis
Rolla, MO

Hi John,

Definitely would have been good to preface the question with I'm building a test rig.

Please do keep the rest of my post in mind particularly when considering the massive configuration options in SAC that as far as I can tell do not exist on any other platform (certainly not in most other physical consoles).

1. Having a full FOH and 24 Full Monitor mix consoles offers incredible routing capabilities that are going to be near impossible to duplicate elsewhere.
2. Being able to connect multiple remotes to the same SAC rig opens up control surface functionality that is also going to be really hard to beat particularly if you want to have very specific control over very specific mixer channels.

As for old/cheap to test with, I'm still going to suggest the x-touch extenders or the x-touch compact. They can be found 2nd hand for relatively cheap prices. There is a compact on eBay for $300.

Actually even new they are not very expensive (running a little over $400).

The x-touch expanders however are going to be more suitable for a full rig as they only have the single extraneous REC button which you can really ignore. Each of the channel strips is just (fader, select, mute, solo, rec, scribble and pan).

cgrafx wrote:You need to completely change your mindset.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply, Phillip. I should have also prefaced my question by saying that buying old, cheap equipment is not for the project at hand - it's for my own system to prove a "proof of concept" to the doubters. A working copy of SAC, an 8-channel audio interface , and a working faderpack would be enough to show how the system could work. As you suggest, the real system, if it were to become a reality, would be built with a bigger budget and much better planning. Thank you for your insights!

John Francis
Rolla, MO

John F wrote:Let me premise this question with the fact that I know absolutely NOTHING about MIDI. The new Presonus 1824c audio interface (USB) I just bought has two midi connectors on it. Occasionally I see the older Mackie fader packs online that have the midi connectors, instead of USB. Could I plug an older fader pack into the midi ports on my Presonus interface, and would that work? Or would I have to have a midi card in the computer itself?

John Francis
Rolla, MO

John,
MIDI is a communication protocol. It doesn't have to be complicated, it's actually pretty basic.

MIDI can flow through many connector formats: DIN, USB, Ethernet, TRS, XLR

"has two midi connectors"
I just looked at this 1824c and it has two 5-pin DIN connectors on the back in the section labelled "MIDI". There are many DIN connector pin configurations. Also there are different cable variations with 3 wired and 5 wired being the basic connectors typically used with 5pin DIN. % wired can carry phantom power.
That doesn't mean those two ports are the only way to get MIDI IN or OUT of your computer. MIDI over USB has been in use for a very long time, yet drivers for MIDI on PCs have been poor until maybe the past 10 years.

just tryin to help :-)

You need to completely change your mindset.

You are not building a project to play with, your designing a mixing console that has to be the equivalent of a commercially produced mixer.

The system your building is not a collection of miscellaneous components. Everything needs to be selected for both performance but also importantly stability.

The heart of your system (the computer you build/select) once configured has to function as a dedicated mixing console and not be thought of or treated as a general use computer.

The same is true for all the components including the controllers. As such there are a number of options for control surfaces. None of them will be connected via MIDI cables, they will either be connected via USB or Ethernet.

My recommendation would be ethernet as once that has been properly configured it should provide the most robust and reliable connection and functionality.

At the present time the Behringer x-touch remotes are actually a very good option. They are well supported and pretty much out of the box provide Faders, Mutes, Solos, Pans and scribble strips.

SAC allows for very powerful and unique control surface management VIA SAC Remote configurations.

You could for example have 24-channels of faders connected directly to your SAC host system that will chase the current hot track and then have a locked set of faders on a SAC remote that are set to a specific block of channels or masters. Since you can connect multiple remotes and each SAC Remote is configured independently you can easily create any chased or locked channel setup you require. Additionally since you can re-arrange channels independently on each remote you could also have -8-, 16-, or 24 non-contiguous channels that are locked to a specific control surface.

All of this requires time up front to properly plan in order to have a system that is going to meet your needs.

You don't build a house without a good structural foundation and architectural plan, particularly if you want to have something that is modular, can be built in stages, and have the necessary bones for future expansion without having to tear out what you started with.

Yes... you can use the midi ports on the soundcard... and yes you can fix the faders to never move or chase movement on the screen.

Bob L

Let me premise this question with the fact that I know absolutely NOTHING about MIDI. The new Presonus 1824c audio interface (USB) I just bought has two midi connectors on it. Occasionally I see the older Mackie fader packs online that have the midi connectors, instead of USB. Could I plug an older fader pack into the midi ports on my Presonus interface, and would that work? Or would I have to have a midi card in the computer itself?

And a somewhat related question is on the actual operation of the faderpacks. Do they just mirror what is on the screen, where the hot channel is, say, the leftmost fader? Can they be set so that a fader on the pack matches a particular fader on the screen, no matter what I may happen to be looking at on the screen?

If you've read any of my previous posts, I'm attempting to convince the powers that be at my church into going with SAC instead of a much higher priced console system. One of the advantages of a fixed console is that the lead singer stays on the same fader, and if I need to adjust it, I know right where to reach to get it. I don't have to potentially scroll through a screen or two to find it. So if I could assign a few faders on the pack to the most often-used channels I need to change, that could be helpful. Or at the very least, help to answer a question I've been asked.

Thank you for your consideration, as always!

John Francis
Rolla, MO