OT: JUCE!

by **mr_es335** » Fri Jan 23, 2026 9:27 am

Rueben,

Did you not read post #10 and #23? I suggest that you do so...so I can avoid having to repeat myself here?

You stated #1: A novice might create a bad plugin using Juce, but a company that has been in this business for 30 years will use Juce and create a good plugin that works well, and in fact, works well everywhere.
* See Post #23 and Reaper!

You stated #2: On the other hand, if it were a Juce error, it would have been fixed during the updates, but no one else is reporting the error, only SAC users.
* See Post #10
* As SAC appears to be the ONLY application that is exhibiting such issues, most developers employing JUCE will not be looking into this matter further.

At present I am having my son Joshua, write a simple wave player plug-in for me entirely in C++!
* There are number of C++ forums that provide "routines" for a number of the functions that will be implemented in this plug-in.
* At present, he will only be implementing the VST2 SDK's.

PS: Do NOT hold your breath on this one! This is a "pipe dream" for the present!

Update!
I got the idea to perform a search entitled, "JUCE and GUI plug-in stalls", and I came up with the following 6...[there are many others as well]:

[Click_Me 1]
[Click_Me 2]
[Click_Me 3]
[Click_Me 4]
[Click_Me_5] ProTools
[Click_Me_6] Reaper

Check the posting dates as well! Interesting!

PS: After doing some more "digging"...there are indeed quite a number of issue with JUCE-based plugins!

by **Ruben VS** » Fri Jan 23, 2026 4:21 am

mr_es335 wrote:Peter,

You noted, "......but if you just use the Juce framework you need to know C++"
My response: This I noted when I first began dialoging with JUCE.
* I did work in C+ many years ago, but one of my sons [Joshua] is a very proficient C++ programmer. He looked into JUCE and made the very same observations.
* So, when the "hype" about not even being a programmer.
* Regardless, JUCE is a "framework" and if the framework has issues - then, at least to me, all other issues are downstream.

At the end of the day, I find it simply not worth the hassle of troubleshooting others issues. Thus, I tend to prefer to purchase products from those that develop such products "in house".

PS: During my "programming days", one author in particular I found very, very helpful was Greg M. Perry! Link

I find it very strange that those plugins work fine everywhere except in SAC. There's some incompatibility between them (although we don't know what it is).

A novice might create a bad plugin using Juce, but a company that has been in this business for 30 years will use Juce and create a good plugin that works well, and in fact, works well everywhere.

On the other hand, if it were a Juce error, it would have been fixed during the updates, but no one else is reporting the error, only SAC users.

The conclusion is that there is an incompatibility between the two, SAC and JUCE. Although we don't know what it is.

by **mr_es335** » Thu Jan 22, 2026 11:17 am

Peter,

You noted, "......but if you just use the Juce framework you need to know C++"
My response: This I noted when I first began dialoging with JUCE.
* I did work in C+ many years ago, but one of my sons [Joshua] is a very proficient C++ programmer. He looked into JUCE and made the very same observations.
* So, what is up with the "hype" about not even having to be a programmer?
* Regardless, JUCE is a "framework" and if the framework has issues - then, at least to me, all other issues are downstream.

At the end of the day, I find it simply not worth the hassle of troubleshooting others issues. Thus, I tend to prefer to purchase products from those that develop such products "in house".

PS: During my "programming days", one author in particular I found very, very helpful was Greg M. Perry! Link

by **Peter O** » Thu Jan 22, 2026 9:13 am

mr_es335 wrote:Good day,

Just-for-interest, have a peep at this: [Click_Me]

"Learning how to create audio plugins (VST3, AU, AAX, ***823;) for digital audio workstations (Ableton Live, Steinberg Cubase, ***823;) is difficult.
Not anymore.
Join the free audio plugin development course with JUCE to create your first plugin easily, even if you aren***8217;t a programmer or a DSP engineer."

Personally, I find the above offensive! Talking with one developer, he literally told me that though he knows the "math" behind his software, he knows absolutely nothing about actual programming!!

So, I asked the question, "What if I have a problem with the actual program then?" I was told, "Go to he JUCE forum!"

However, if the developer has moved much, if not most, of his developmental platform over to JUCE, then that code is protected by them, and we then have to wait for them to troubleshoot and fix the issue.

Not a great place to be in!!

I'm currently following the course and believe me you have to be a pretty proficient C++ programmer to write a plugin that uses Juce. My own C++ skills are a bit rusty and I'm struggling :-)
There are ways to build plugins without writing (much) code (VISE, Max MSP) but if you just use the Juce framework you need to know C++

by **mr_es335** » Thu Jan 22, 2026 8:13 am

Good day,

Just-for-interest, have a peep at this: [Click_Me]

"Learning how to create audio plugins (VST3, AU, AAX, for digital audio workstations (Ableton Live, Steinberg Cubase, is difficult.
Not anymore.
Join the free audio plugin development course with JUCE to create your first plugin easily, even if you aren't a programmer or a DSP engineer."

Personally, I find the above offensive! Talking with one developer, he literally told me that though he knows the "math" behind his software, he knows absolutely nothing about actual programming!!

So, I asked the question, "What if I have a problem with the actual program then?" I was told, "Go to he JUCE forum!"

However, if the developer has moved much, if not most, of his developmental platform over to JUCE, then that code is protected by them, and we then have to wait for them to troubleshoot and fix the issue.

Not a great place to be in!!

by **mr_es335** » Wed May 29, 2024 9:31 am

Good day,

As an update, JUCE v8 has just been released!

More specifically, JUCE was previously acquired by PACE back in 2020 - which, having been rather dormant since that acquisition, in this latest release, it would appear that some form of "licensing" will become more pervasive.

What this new licensing scheme will actually be comprised of - is yet to be seen!

More importantly, for us Vst2 folk - v8 has apparently revised their Vst2 implementation. Whatever this new implementation is, of the three v8, Vst2 plug-ins that were sent to me for testing, none of these plug-ins worked in either SAC or SAW. Thus, we may be witnessing the end of Vst2 implementation in JUCE - and which honestly, is to be expected!

Am I at all concerned? In short, "Nope!" My reasoning, "More often than not...more is just that, more!"

I hope this information will be of some practicable use?

by **mr_es335** » Thu Jan 25, 2024 3:11 pm

Good day,

A very important update!!

At the recommendation of one of the developers, I spent a few hours learning my way around "Reaper" and to my surprise, I discovered that Reaper was experiencing very similar anomalies as that of SAC!
* I cannot state that these anomalies are identical, but GUI stalls occurs with both hosts! Interesting!

Within a Reaper project, you have the ability to save a plug-in "preset". Again, this ability is within the project...thus, within the application.
* Thus, I saved two presets. Then toggling between the two, the UI stalls..thought the "effect" of that changes is observed...and heard! Thus, the UI itself, stalls.

Again, "When you have eliminated the impossible, what is left, no matter how unlikely, is the truth."

by **Bob L** » Thu Jan 25, 2024 5:49 am

Make sure that the SAC startup icon is set to "Run As Administrator" and that the SAC option to force realtime priority is checked... see if that makes a difference.

Bob L

by **operationwhat** » Thu Jan 25, 2024 12:13 am

Sorry to intrude the thread but can anyone tell me why do plugin alteration,
like knob movement effect the sound when SAC engine is supposed to force
audio to one core only and the rest should be on the other?

WHY???

Just did a show and put Nomad BlueTubes in SAC a low CPU plugin compressor
and SAC started to drop out like hell!!!!!!

And I mixed with 7.4 protools 15years ago with 2x32 without any dropouts + triggers + 1176 + 15ch live monitorng?!
How come?
------------------------
Anyway there's a not so new (2016) software mixer out there for Mac that does some similar thing like SAC Loudlab / SoundDesk
that reminds me of waves rack but much better!
Anyone ever worked with it? Any experience????

by **UpTilDawn** » Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:19 am

Dave Labrecque wrote:I know I have buffer-size-changing issues with some plugins following the Levelizer when it's doing one of its buffer-size-changing things (like normalizing and/or peak limiting). Could that be the thing, here? A test would be to not use those features and just do some simple compression or something with the Levelizer. Of course, if you're like me, that won't be much help because I'm almost always using the Levelizer exclusively for exactly those functions.

You're probably right about that. I just haven't taken much time to investigate. I'll check it out and report back.

by **Dave Labrecque** » Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:15 am

mr_es335 wrote:
* I have created a 9 minute video that clearly displays this anomaly...sadly, which I am NOT allowed to present.

Really? How could that be? I don't believe you.

by **Dave Labrecque** » Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:12 am

mr_es335 wrote:Dave,

See first post...paragraph four...

Thanks. And what do you mean by "plug-in stalls"?

by **Dave Labrecque** » Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:10 am

UpTilDawn wrote:I've also begun to experience random crashes in SAW64 when placing certain of the most recent plugins I've purchased after SAW Levelizer - most probably analyzer plugins like Sonible True Level (is there a pattern here, I wonder?), or Voxengo Span (IIRC). SAW doesn't seem to like plugins to be placed after the Levelizer - even if I only engage them long enough to check levels, etc.

I know I have buffer-size-changing issues with some plugins following the Levelizer when it's doing one of its buffer-size-changing things (like normalizing and/or peak limiting). Could that be the thing, here? A test would be to not use those features and just do some simple compression or something with the Levelizer. Of course, if you're like me, that won't be much help because I'm almost always using the Levelizer exclusively for exactly those functions.

by **UpTilDawn** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:17 am

Issues for me have been limited to SAW, since I rarely need to use fx in SAC in the studio (and why I haven't posted this in the SAC forum before).
But that being said, freezes probably occur after long sessions, as MMP observed, except that my issues are mostly with Sonible fx.
The issues with the graphic controls not displaying when i open a plugin in SAW maybe happen from having a session open for a long time, as above, but I'm not sure, since I often will leave a session open overnight and it maybe just "feels" to me like it's new when I start working.

"No display" does seem to be more random than that, however. But I couldn't begin to guess what the "trigger" is for this.

Hot patching/removing more recently released plugins has become an issue for me in SAW64 as well.
I compensate, first by taking snapshots and saving sessions far more frequently than I ever needed to before and secondly, by stopping playback before patching/removing almost all plugins now.

I've also begun to experience random crashes in SAW64 when placing certain of the most recent plugins I've purchased after SAW Levelizer - most probably analyzer plugins like Sonible True Level (is there a pattern here, I wonder?), or Voxengo Span (IIRC). SAW doesn't seem to like plugins to be placed after the Levelizer - even if I only engage them long enough to check levels, etc.

But it's the combination of affects that has left me with the feeling that my pc is just not up to the demand of the newer fx and so, have not even considered this JUCE possibility as a cause.

by **MMP** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:05 am

Random freezes in SAWStudio64. Mostly with a few plugins. Izotope***8217;s Insight2 freezes a lot. but, other Juce based plugins are fine. Not sure what the issue is, but it seems to happen more often as the session has been open for a long time, so I would guess some kind of memory leak. Restarting the session seems to reset the countdown clock to new freezes.

by **mr_es335** » Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:47 am

Good day,

MMP [Link]: Can you please provide detailed info as to how to recreate this anomaly?

UpTilDawn [Link]: Can you please do the same?

In particular, what is the "trigger" that causes this anomaly to occur?
* For example, in SAC, it is when a scene is updated that this anomaly occurs.
* I have created a 9 minute video that clearly displays this anomaly...sadly, which I am NOT allowed to present.

by **mr_es335** » Mon Jan 08, 2024 8:51 am

Dave,

See first post...paragraph four...

by **Dave Labrecque** » Mon Jan 08, 2024 8:44 am

What kinds of bugs are we talking about?

by **cgrafx** » Sat Jan 06, 2024 8:09 pm

mr_es335 wrote:Philip,

You stated, "Juce is an open source library. Meaning it could be patched to fix the issue in SAC/SAW..." ..."True"...but only at the behest or interest of the original developer. Thus, if the original developer has no interest in pursuing the matter, the no further steps would be taken!

The following is typical of that which I have received for those whom i have reached out to...six in all...

"Juce is VERY MUCH an industry standard at this point. My guess is that most plugin developers are using it. SAC, on the other hand, is a product that I***8217;ve only heard of one customer using, that is you. If the SAC developer is insisting that the issue is not his, but is rather a Juce issue, I would ask why Juce plugins successfully run in Pro Tools, Logic, Live, Cubase, FL Studio, Studio One, Bitwig, Reaper, Reason, Garage Band, etc. In general, I would suggest moving on to a modern DAW that is being actively developed. A lot of Windows users that work ***8220;closer to the metal***8221; are very happy with Reaper, which is a $60 investment, and is free to try out."[Emphasis mine]

Of the six, only one had ever heard of SAC...or SAW for that matter. All six said that I should consider Reaper as an alternative! Very disappointing indeed

That would be the most useful approach with the added benefit that it would potentially fix all of the plug-ins utilizing the library.

You then stated, "Perhaps it would be useful to reach out to the Juce development community and see if its possible to find somebody that would be interested in fixing the bug." Good suggestion...thanks for this. I will contact two of the developers whom I have worked closely with and ask them if this might be a possible solution to the "problem". I will keep you posted as to what their response is.

Open source means its not dependent on the original developer.

Just have to find somebody interested in contributing. As for the brush off from the original developer, that is of coarse disappointing and also ignorant as reaper is not even a remote replacement for SAC (which is primarily where the bug is occurring - since Scenes don't exist in Saw Studio)

by **mr_es335** » Sat Jan 06, 2024 5:48 pm

Philip,

You stated, "Juce is an open source library. Meaning it could be patched to fix the issue in SAC/SAW..." ..."True"...but only at the behest or interest of the original developer. Thus, if the original developer has no interest in pursuing the matter, the no further steps would be taken!

The following is typical of that which I have received for those whom i have reached out to...six in all...

"Juce is VERY MUCH an industry standard at this point. My guess is that most plugin developers are using it. SAC, on the other hand, is a product that I've only heard of one customer using, that is you. If the SAC developer is insisting that the issue is not his, but is rather a Juce issue, I would ask why Juce plugins successfully run in Pro Tools, Logic, Live, Cubase, FL Studio, Studio One, Bitwig, Reaper, Reason, Garage Band, etc. In general, I would suggest moving on to a modern DAW that is being actively developed. A lot of Windows users that work 'closer to the metal' are very happy with Reaper, which is a $60 investment, and is free to try out."[Emphasis mine]

Of the six, only one had ever heard of SAC...or SAW for that matter. All six said that I should consider Reaper as an alternative! Very disappointing indeed

That would be the most useful approach with the added benefit that it would potentially fix all of the plug-ins utilizing the library.

You then stated, "Perhaps it would be useful to reach out to the Juce development community and see if its possible to find somebody that would be interested in fixing the bug." Good suggestion...thanks for this. I will contact two of the developers whom I have worked closely with and ask them if this might be a possible solution to the "problem". I will keep you posted as to what their response is.

OT: JUCE!

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