hmmmm, seems like I've stumbled upon a bug when grouping Z-mix channels and writing offline automation...
regarding only channel faders
eight channels>4 channels down from 0 to -inf>the other 4 up from -inf to 0 and the 3rd channel in group 2 of four suddenly is +25dB offset higher volume;
these fader moves are all at exactly the same point on the timeline with no fades- essentially mutes and solos

the sub groups are not adjacent tracks; they are skipped every other selected...and it's not a saved group, just grouping on the fly

it's cost me too much time already, I will have to crack on...I might try to confirm this later...

Richswit, I added a feature to control2tempo that will do what you want. Read the pdf on that thread.

John

My head hurts.

But keep up the good work!

After saying it was fine as it was, I added the ability to export the track order only.

..\songEDLdirectory\TrackOrders\F1.sto

The autohotkey helper script creates the TrackOrders sub-directory in a project's edl directory, so the `F1, `F2... will be individualized for each project (unless you have all your edls in the same directory).

The new merge_track_order.exe will read edl or sto files for track order. A sto file is just a text file that you can edit by hand (if you choose). The format is:

SAWSTUDIO_TRACK_ORDER_FILE
#
R_4
C_1 # pound initiates a comment
I_2
O_6

...the tracks will reorder Return-4, Control, Input-2, Output-6, Input-1, Input-3, Input-4... and continue with the natural sort order.

I'm playing with autohotkey V2 to save or recall the trackorders as we speak. One of the challenges is to find available hot-key combos that don't interfere with Studio's. It is looking like backtick + Fkey. I'm thinking of {Escape} + Fkey to store - but I haven't got there to see what challenges emerge.

Bob has used every trick to make saw own the cpu it is running on, and it's windows stick tenaciously to the top. This presents several obstacles to autohotkey (and someone writing a script), so while the script will work well, it is not perfect. So programmer types should consider this an invitation to improve it.

An example of this is the transport must be stopped when calling changing track-order (which is done by making [2], then editing, then backing into an undo) - or a crash could result. AutoHot Key could look for changes in digits of the transport position, so that commands are ignored during playback. For now, it will mean backup your edls before you use these tools.

A prerequisite is autohotkey v2.0

Standby...

Nice. And I suppose you could take it a step further to create multiple track orders if you wanted.

I don't believe this is something that could be done with an analog console and multitrack tape machine.

Dave Labrecque wrote:So what does this thing do? I'm not following. I mean I'm following. But I don't follow.

If you are juggling around your tracks, you might do a 'save a copy' (called order.edl) before you start. When you are done, you would run merge_track_order. It will restore the original track order stored in order.edl.

If you were doing a movie, you might have directory of different themovie/orders/sceneX.edl with the dialogs of different actors associated with each different scene in order of importance. I am aware that doing that with a command line utility is a bit cumbersome - but the intent is to have a helper script enable you to change orders on the fly.

BTW, the actual track-order data is tiny, so the program could be modified to store only that - but for my needs, and the fact that an edl's worth of storage is a penny, it is fine the way it is.

So what does this thing do? I'm not following. I mean I'm following. But I don't follow.

Todd R wrote:if I Shift-left click while in a group, I will default order 1-128 which could be a big time waster

essentially my track/ channel order is saved in the edl

a custom track/ channel order would be helpful

I was watching a dvd the other night, and I realized I had already written a utility that manipulated edls, and that modifying it to copy track order would be trivial - and it was done before the movie was over.
merge_track_order.exe

It takes 3 arguments (or -h):
merge_track_order.exe input.edl order.edl output.edl



It works here (and probably everywhere), but for safety's sake, make sure output.edl isn't the name of an existing edl.
The input file's track-order data is replaced with the track-order data from order.edl

I will probably do an autohotkey to call it from while saw is running against undo files, but I'm having some issues while ss is running as administrator. I'll play around with that eventually - but if someone gets to it first in autoit, have at it...

Here is the size (18432) & shasum:

bash-3.2# ls -l merge_track_order.exe
-rw-r--r--@ 1 ramona staff 18432 Feb 12 12:59 merge_track_order.exe
bash-3.2# shasum merge_track_order.exe
6a03242e28320bdcf64427fb663c2f30633c1079 merge_track_order.exe

Thanks Dave for your inputs :-D

I love the way this thread has gone...
for 20 years , you think you "understand" something...
lo and behold, there's more to it!!!

Let me just say, grouping on the fly in the mixers is such a time saver!!!
Bang, set a channel group in my job in seconds with groups

back to 20 years of "doing this" (Peter Murphy)
an a similar note; I have guitar amps which most of the world despises: Fender CyberTwins

anyway, I been bellyachin' that I want to use a different power amp and that the FX Loop is weird
...maybe that will sound better, but not possible...Wrong!!
I always knew these amps have Line Out; not just any old line out; stereo XLR =-D

I happened upon a YT vid with a fellow showing his tube power connections for his CyberTwin
"Doh!...Duh!!!"
plugged my CTs into my VHT power amps; OMG!!! Sounds fantastic
20 years...I was always doin it wrong
answer right in front of my nose

anyway, back to mixing

Yeppers......

UpTilDawn wrote:No, No.... no can do.
Only manipulate after saved as number groups.

Okay, I figured it out. (Again? ) Sorry, if this is what you're saying, and I'm basically showing off my early-onset brain:

You create a group by selecting track numbers. You can then recall a group to either track numbers or track labels: clicking on the group name selects the track numbers, alt-clicking on the group name selects track labels. And you can mix and match as desired.

Here's the whole poop from the help file:

Dave Labrecque wrote:...
But get this: today I can't save label groups in the MT. What's up with that? I thought for sure I'd been able to do that a couple days ago. :confused:

No, No.... no can do.
Only manipulate after saved as number groups.

UpTilDawn wrote:I can see how toggling two overlapping groups (say, track numbers 1-4, track labels 3-8, with various drum mics...) could allow for some convenient A/B comparing

You don't need both types of selection coexisting on the same track to do this.

or to be able to edit regions and/or automation of one group, while listening to the entire group.

Again, you don't need both types to co-exist on any track(s) for this. Just use number selection for edit "ganging" of tracks and label selection to add the tracks you want to hear but not edit.

I guess it could be inconvenient to have common inter-group tracks toggle selection when a new label group is invoked and added to the existing number selections in the MT and you want the existing edit ganging of tracks to remain intact.


But get this: today I can't save label groups in the MT. What's up with that? I thought for sure I'd been able to do that a couple days ago. :confused:

Dave Labrecque wrote:... The ability to have both selected at the same time would appear to be a design oversight that should be trapped for since you can't both include and exclude the same track from "en masse editing operations." Unless I'm missing something, I'd say what should happen is that when you select one (number or label) on a track that already has the other selected, whether manually or by invoking group recall, that other selection should toggle off.

I wonder which one takes priority. A little experimentation would tell us. I'm gonna guess track number selection functionality is king...

Personally, I see the current behavior as a plus.
Granted, I might not take advantage of it often, But I can see how toggling two overlapping groups (say, track numbers 1-4, track labels 3-8, with various drum mics...) could allow for some convenient A/B comparing, or to be able to edit regions and/or automation of one group, while listening to the entire group. I'm sure other scenarios would crop up from time to time.

jmh wrote:What does label-selection allow you to do?

Play back selected tracks while editing a single, selected track (or not).

Todd R wrote:Dave, do you have an explanation as to what is the purpose/ functionality of Label groups? Is there a label naming benefit or something?

IIRC, label selection is a way to specify which tracks will playback, but without edit operations affecting anything but the hottrack. It can be pretty handy. While grouping selected track numbers in the MT would be for listening to and/or editing different combinations of tracks en masse, grouping selected track labels would be for listening to different combinations of tracks while, perhaps, editing a single track. That's all I can think of.

Or is it just for selecting words rather than numbers?

Nope.

cuz users can have either numbers or labels or both per track in the MT

I beg your pardon? Do you mean "...can have either numbers or labels or both selected per track... ? True. The ability to have both selected at the same time would appear to be a design oversight that should be trapped for since you can't both include and exclude the same track from "en masse editing operations." Unless I'm missing something, I'd say what should happen is that when you select one (number or label) on a track that already has the other selected, whether manually or by invoking group recall, that other selection should toggle off.

I wonder which one takes priority. A little experimentation would tell us. I'm gonna guess track number selection functionality is king.

and, again, you are mainly talking about the MT window in this post :-)

I suppose so, since mixer windows don't have selectable labels. Is this problematic?

jmh wrote:*** Aha! Starting to see the answer to the difference between multitrack label-select and number-select question (these two bits from manual):

* Whenever tracks are selected using the Label Display zone, the tracks are not included in group editing functions, but are only active as special playback groups.

* MultiTrack playback is responsive to both number-selected and label-selected track groups. Only those tracks within the group will play. This enhances preload time and processing time because all un-selected tracks are bypassed completely. Use this option in place of soloing for an instant and quick repeated playback within a complex session. Press [Ctrl] when activating playback, to bypass the selection and play all tracks leaving the selection group intact. You may also freely select tracks while playback is active for use with layer switching.


An example:[INDENT]label-select and number-select several tracks
hit 'k'
[/INDENT]
...regions are cut on all (but only) number-selected tracks (regardless of label-selection).


So,

• Number-selecting allows you to do simultaneous edits - but only on those tracks. Playback is also limited to selected tracks.
• Label-selected tracks will playback in addition to any number-selected tracks. This allows you to listen to various subsets of tracks - or the full mix.

(The multitrack and mixer view title-bar right-click menus have various 'select alls' to speed track selection.)

Edit: changed bolded text for a clear description.

ok, thanks for this!

richswit wrote:My head hurts

indeed, because this is all text

if we were all in the same room at the same time, might get to the bottom of it more quickly
alas...that won't be happening
a video tutorial would be helpful

That said, grouping tracks in the MT window>
starting by number selecting :-)
should get close to what you wanted to do in your OP
you'll just have to first make the groups

If you were to try your group creation in a mixer window, depending upon how your navigation links are set in the Mixer menu...you may well not get the result you want

I thought you wanted to see a selection of tracks on in one F-Key view...grouping will allow you to do that fairly easily
as long as your f-key track height accommodates all the tracks in your groups

we just all learned new stuff along the way! =-D

aaaaand it is kinda easy to get confused with this subject

My head hurts

jmh wrote:... Press [Ctrl] when activating playback, to bypass the selection and play all tracks leaving the selection group intact. ...

Wow! There's one that I missed... and I've been a big fan of channel/track groups for years.