Adding a Subwoofer: Output Tracks: Direct or Sub

by **Todd R** » Sun Oct 26, 2025 9:20 am

OK, I have this all working now. Thank goodness I have RME Total Mix too, because the matrix re-routing is fantastic. Total Mix, really shines to sort thru the SS design of pointing Direct Device Outputs to pairs.

First thing to realize when routing output assigns (pressing assign buttons with mouse) is that SS Automation must be disabled.
If user tries to assign destinations while SS Automation is active, those assign buttons will light up and appear selected, yet, the moment MT "play" is engaged; those assignments will disappear (dis-engage).

The SS manual doesn't necessarily explain SS functionality that way;
manual states: "These switches must be preset before playback and may not be automated."

by **Todd R** » Thu Oct 23, 2025 11:23 am

MMP wrote:Sub outs can only be assigned to 1-2 the Mian mix output, or directly to the same numbered device pair.

Such as
Sub 2 to device outputs 3-4
Sub 3 to device outputs 5-6
Sub 4 to device outputs 7-8
etc

There is a bit more flexibility if you setup and use the multichannel panner. But, it would be better to check out the manual for that setup as I don t think I could describe it in sufficient detail.

hmmm, OK, penny has dropped for me now that I have the Direct Outs verses Sub-Group figured out.

First thing to do is set up the Direct Audio Device Output channels; then route sub-groups to those Direct Outs.

To be clear, obviously the manual is correct. Set corresponding output channel to it's channel number. Then can route as many sub-group channels as you have available to the direct outs. Routing mistakes will return a dialog pop-up when play is launched.

I don't need the XY Surround Panners for my purposes. AFAIAA SAW will export multiple wav files per Direct Audio Device Output that I will interleave into a poly in another program :-)

by **Todd R** » Tue Oct 21, 2025 8:43 am

cgrafx wrote:Hi Todd,

got it.. sounded like you might have been just trying to add a sub woofer to the system, but that isn't what you are after.

I don't have any experience with 5.1 processing so can't offer you any advice.

thanks for trying to help, I greatly appreciate :-)

I kind of think the surround game will be over before I get too deep into it...altho the investment into multiple identical audio monitors can just build up to the 7.4.1 scenario

by **cgrafx** » Wed Oct 15, 2025 12:57 pm

Todd R wrote:Hi Phillip,
I currently have a 2.1 system with RME UFX+; outs 1/2 feeding a monitor mixer (Drawmer MC2.1) feeding a pair of Adam A7X and Avantone MixCubes (active).
I've taken the subwoofer from my home surround system which is a Klipsch R12SW CE which has RCA inputs and a LPF cabled via UFX+ output 7.

And I do need to create a 5.1 mix and cannot afford to purchase 3 more A7X. I can use my AVR and little Klipsch surround speakers to at least mix on identical speakers.
I have a Denon S750H which has two zones and will allow for four discrete inputs. I know this setup is a million miles away from ideal mix this, yet there is just no budget.

Now it's up to whether I can get SAWStudio to feed the C and Ls and Rs 5.1. I think I have 3 Return channels I could use for sub-mix busses.

Hi Todd,

got it.. sounded like you might have been just trying to add a sub woofer to the system, but that isn't what you are after.

I don't have any experience with 5.1 processing so can't offer you any advice.

by **Todd R** » Wed Oct 15, 2025 9:59 am

cgrafx wrote:hey Todd,

If you're just adding subs to your mix setup, there is no need to add them as a separate mix bus.

What sort of monitor setup do you have?

What brand/model of speakers?

Hi Phillip,
I currently have a 2.1 system with RME UFX+; outs 1/2 feeding a monitor mixer (Drawmer MC2.1) feeding a pair of Adam A7X and Avantone MixCubes (active).
I've taken the subwoofer from my home surround system which is a Klipsch R12SW CE which has RCA inputs and a LPF cabled via UFX+ output 7.

And I do need to create a 5.1 mix and cannot afford to purchase 3 more A7X. I can use my AVR and little Klipsch surround speakers to at least mix on identical speakers.
I have a Denon S750H which has two zones and will allow for four discrete inputs. I know this setup is a million miles away from ideal mix this, yet there is just no budget.

Now it's up to whether I can get SAWStudio to feed the C and Ls and Rs 5.1. I think I have 3 Return channels I could use for sub-mix busses.

by **Todd R** » Wed Oct 15, 2025 9:20 am

MMP wrote:Sub outs can only be assigned to 1-2 the Mian mix output, or directly to the same numbered device pair.

Such as
Sub 2 to device outputs 3-4
Sub 3 to device outputs 5-6
Sub 4 to device outputs 7-8
etc

There is a bit more flexibility if you setup and use the multichannel panner. But, it would be better to check out the manual for that setup as I don t think I could describe it in sufficient detail.

Thanks for this :-D

From the manual

"Sub-Group Output
If an Out Assign switch not matching the current Output channel number is engaged, the channel
becomes a sub-group output and will re-route its signal data back to the selected destination
channel. The selected destination chan must be a Direct Device output chan, not another sub out
chan. You may assign a sub to multiple Direct Device out chans at the same time."

So, I think I need clarification for the term "sub".
Easy confusion between the terms from the SS manual where "sub" is short for sub-mix;
and users using the term "sub" to describe a subwoofer.

So these references to "sub" in this particular post mean sub-mix

and from the manual, it is stated that an output channel functioning as sub mix cannot be routed to another output channel functioning as sub mix.

I have been referring to the manual. It looks like I will need to create a separate, specific job for surround mixing.

OK, I have had my subwoofer working since I posted this OP;
physically cabled to my subwoofer via analog out 7 of RME UFX+;
Output channel 4 is set as a Direct Audio Device Output (out assign switch engaged to 4);
I also have Output Channel 8 set as a sub-mix with out assign switch also engaged to 4

I do have some other scenarios where I would like to route sub-mix groups to other sub-mix groups, but that is not possible in SAWStudio; understood.

by **cgrafx** » Mon Oct 13, 2025 9:56 pm

hey Todd,

If you're just adding subs to your mix setup, there is no need to add them as a separate mix bus.

What sort of monitor setup do you have?

What brand/model of speakers?

by **MMP** » Mon Oct 13, 2025 4:44 pm

Sub outs can only be assigned to 1-2 the Mian mix output, or directly to the same numbered device pair.

Such as
Sub 2 to device outputs 3-4
Sub 3 to device outputs 5-6
Sub 4 to device outputs 7-8
etc

There is a bit more flexibility if you setup and use the multichannel panner. But, it would be better to check out the manual for that setup as I don t think I could describe it in sufficient detail.

by **Todd R** » Mon Oct 13, 2025 11:03 am

from manual: "Assigning a sub out to another sub out chan will cause a warning message when playback is activated."

this is what is tripping me up

by **Todd R** » Mon Oct 13, 2025 10:26 am

Gosh darn it, struggling with this output routing verses bussing today

I just want to be able to create busses and patch mixer channels internally, but this is such a hassle in SAW

Do users first have to set output tracks to physical devices and then route busses/subs?

That invalid track dialog is entirely unpleasant

any advice appreciated

by **Todd R** » Fri Jun 13, 2025 9:07 am

Well, I hit my head on the desk for a few days getting a subwoofer incorporated into my audio workstation.

Oh my, the pitfalls and challenges.

Where I was getting stuck was in output track routing.

For direct outs; out assign number must match output track number.

I didn't want to mess around with my current sub-mix situation in this particular job; so I added another output track (7).
With my UFX+ and limited understanding of Total Mix, I ended up doing just loads of research.

Turns out it is the numbering of available activated soundcard outputs and it's easy to get confused about the numbering SAW relates to the out assign numbers because they are in pairs.

Button 1 is 1&2
2=3/4
3=5/6
4=7/8
5=9/10
6=11/12
7=13/14
8=15/16

and so on

written out like this, now I see how I could have simplified
I essentially changed my sub mix 4 set to 4 and it fed out channel 7 where I had patched my hardware

oh the joys of routing

Adding a Subwoofer: Output Tracks: Direct or Sub

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