Acceptible plugins to use in SAC.

[jmh]

I've been tinkering around with plugin management again - something like my ini_builder (although I'm not sure if anyone has actually used it). Not being a sac user, all of my testing has been in saw. What plugins are not good for use in SAC. I assume that no, or very low latency plugins tend to work okay. Is there any limit to the number of millisecond or samples that is considered acceptable?

John

Edit: Improve clarity.

[Bob L]

The current V2 SAC will let plugins thru even when they have x number of latency causing samples... but it warns you on the plugin so you know this chan is now out of phase with the rest of the channels... so its up to you to use it or not... for a reverb its fine... its like pre-delay... but for eq and comps it forces that channel to be late... if it causes audible phase problems you just can't use it.

Bob L

[jmh]

I see, so a plugin that might typically be unusable on an input channel might be perfectly fine on, say a return (if sac uses those names), so in my case, you wouldn't want to skip making an ini for them.

So it sounds akin to a conveyor belt where SAC will run the belt whether it is 10 or 1000 feet long - but it takes longer for a package to fall off the end of the 1000 footer.

I hadn't thought about phasing issues. I guess that's the thing about the real world, it has things like gravity.

[cgrafx]

The general rule of thumb for SAC is don't use latency inducing plug-ins. Can you.. yes, is it a good idea... not generally.

There are already so many more things to worry about in a live use configuration it is almost never going to be a good idea to add more pieces to the puzzle where things can go wrong.

As for plug-in management, the architecture for SAW and SAC are fundamentally the same. Same .ini file and plug-in installation structure.

[Bob L]

Use the group options in the FX Choices list to group plugins that have latency in SAC and ones that don't... then it becomes easy to know whats going on.

Bob L

[cgrafx]

Use the group options in the FX Choices list to group plugins that have latency in SAC and ones that don't... then it becomes easy to know whats going on.

Bob L

Yes, that's great when you are the only person adding a plug-in to the audio chain, but that doesn't do anything for a situation where a latency inducing plug-in has been added and is now part of a saved configuration and somebody else is using the system. They didn't install the plug-in, may not know its installed and by default don't know its latency inducing. Now have an out of sync audio chain and don't understand why things sound out of whack.

Or a more likely scenario, somebody uses a latency inducing plug-in and then gets busy, comes back to that saved show 6 months later and deosn't remember the that plug-in is installed and again has an out of sync audio chain.

Both scenarios can create hair pulling situations in high-pressure live environments where seconds often matter and now you are spending minutes or hours trying to figure out why your system is mucked up.

Just better not to unnecessarily add those additional variables.

Note: I'm not criticizing the ability to add latency inducing plug-ins, its awesome to have that capability - just pointing out from my personal experience the potential pit-falls.

[Bob L]

Any latency causing plugin is marked clearly on the main interface ... so if you suspect a problem pop up the patched plugins and you will see which ones are causing latency... otherwise don't use them... simple as that... having the ability to patch them now should be considered a bonus... if you test when you first buy a new plugin, you can mark the latency ones and put them in a separates group... and any concerns about latency plugins patched in months ago is really unfounded because up until V2, latency plugins were not allowed at all in SAC.

Bob L

[cgrafx]

Any latency causing plugin is marked clearly on the main interface ... so if you suspect a problem pop up the patched plugins and you will see which ones are causing latency... otherwise don't use them... simple as that... having the ability to patch them now should be considered a bonus... if you test when you first buy a new plugin, you can mark the latency ones and put them in a separates group... and any concerns about latency plugins patched in months ago is really unfounded because up until V2, latency plugins were not allowed at all in SAC.

Bob L

I realize my post might have sounded like I was saying I had experience with latency inducing plug-ins specifically, when I was really just pointing out experiences where more than one person is working in a system environment and changes are made without the knowledge of the other individuals ultimately leading to the right hand not knowing what the left hand has done.

Additional I have definitely made changes to things that I later forgot I did, so this can happen even when there is only one person involved.

All that aside, huge gratitude and thanks for all of your hard work, time and commitment to SAW, SAC and this community.