SAWStudio / SAC User Group

jmh wrote:One more thing. I think groups are just groups. Channel and Number only have meaning when you use (or create) them.

Do you mean channel and track?

UpTilDawn wrote:SAW will only ever have one active group at a time.

Not actually true. You can have same, different, and/or multiple groups simultaneously active on MT and Mixer if you like.

Fun things I've just learned:

1) ctrl-clicking on a group adds that group to currently selected tracks, track labels or channels
2) alt-clicking on a track group adds that group as selected track *labels* instead of numbers
3) ctrl-alt-clicking on a track group will allow you to add that group as selected track labels to currently selected tracks, track labels or channels


But remember that with great power comes great responsibility.

Dave Labrecque wrote:To be clear: you can have different groups active on MT vs. Mixer if you like.

Fun things I've just learned:

1) ctrl-clicking on a group adds that group to currently selected tracks, track labels or channels
2) alt-clicking on a track group adds that group as selected track *labels* instead of numbers
3) ctrl-alt-clicking on a track group will allow you to add that group as selected track labels to currently selected tracks, track labels or channels


But remember that with great power comes great responsibility.

Dave, do you have an explanation as to what is the purpose/ functionality of Label groups? Is there a label naming benefit or something?

Or is it just for selecting words rather than numbers?

cuz users can have either numbers or labels or both per track in the MT

and, again, you are mainly talking about the MT window in this post :-)

Alert!

This thread contains misinformation - much of it posted by me. I am confusing number-selecting as label-selecting in full view. As far as I can tell, label-selecting only exists in multitrack.

I was also confused in thinking channel-selected in a mixer and label-selected in multitrack were the same thing, and that this thread had enlightened me (but I have faith that it will).

I've been using number-selected tracks in multitrack for years (always manually selecting), but I've tended to avoid multitrack label-selection (feared when I got into it by accident - for how to get out). What does label-selection allow you to do?

__________

Trivia question: What is the difference between left-click & alt-left-click in multitrack track-number? RTFM=WTF

Conclusion - a quote from the manual:

MultiTrack View Window
...
This is an extremely complex window with many commands and modes.

Dave Labrecque wrote:If it hasn't bee said yet, the groups are all the same among the various windows. It's the window in which you select the group that determines the resulting potential functionality.

hmmmm...it's a bit confusing

yes, group preset list is the same labels in every window MT, Z, F, Ex, W

but there are different selections possible in each window

but what do we hear? the MT? ...hmmm, it's all of whatever is selected (solo'd) across all the selected channels and tracks in the group I suppose

I'm finding it extremely helpful...saving me a lot of extra mouse moves!

jmh wrote:Alert!

This thread contains misinformation - much of it posted by me. I am confusing number-selecting as label-selecting in full view. As far as I can tell, label-selecting only exists in multitrack.

I was also confused in thinking channel-selected in a mixer and label-selected in multitrack were the same thing, and that this thread had enlightened me (but I have faith that it will).

I've been using number-selected tracks in multitrack for years (always manually selecting), but I've tended to avoid multitrack label-selection (feared when I got into it by accident - for how to get out). What does label-selection allow you to do?

__________

Trivia question: What is the difference between left-click & alt-left-click in multitrack track-number? RTFM=WTF

Conclusion - a quote from the manual:

MultiTrack View Window
...
This is an extremely complex window with many commands and modes.

ROTF!!!

Hey, man! This is how we learn
I spread plenty of misinformation as well....

don't beat yourself up about it, you were mostly right to start...and got me tinkering

Dave Labrecque wrote:The bummer is that after you group the tracks, you have to re-order the MT to get them to all hang together in one view (assuming they're not already contiguous). But if you created a "default group," you could always return to that track order afterward.

Yes, this is the daddy

for example, my current job has no sequential track/ channel numbers all out of order

if I Shift-left click while in a group, I will default order 1-128 which could be a big time waster

essentially my track/ channel order is saved in the edl

a custom track/ channel order would be helpful

I mean, my job isn't that filled up...and could be easily organized using groups...
which I might have previously done if I had been using these groups before now

"What is the difference between left-click & alt-left-click in multitrack track-number?"

left click, you select a track, 1 for example
alt left click you select all tracks between 1 and the one you choose, if it's 5, all tracks 1,2,3,4,5 are selected

shift left click move a selected track.

ivanoff wrote:"What is the difference between left-click & alt-left-click in multitrack track-number?"

left click, you select a track, 1 for example
alt left click you select all tracks between 1 and the one you choose, if it's 5, all tracks 1,2,3,4,5 are selected

shift left click move a selected track.

Thanks. When I was testing this one it was among sequential tracks, so I saw no difference. My mind is getting filled with new discovery today...

This thread is moving along. Don't know what post(s) this is in reply to.

>>You can create groups from either multitrack or mixer views. In multitrack you must have tracks selected - in mixers, groups are created from selected 'channels'.
>no, either Number selected or Label selected TRACKs in the MT window :-D
Refers to CREATING a group. [edit: when creating a group in a mixer-view, channels are number-selected (which means something a bit different).]


>Track or channel selection can be different.
Yeah, and track-number-select, and track-label-select (don't know what this one does yet).

*** Aha! Starting to see the answer to the difference between multitrack label-select and number-select question (these two bits from manual):

* Whenever tracks are selected using the Label Display zone, the tracks are not included in group editing functions, but are only active as special playback groups.

* MultiTrack playback is responsive to both number-selected and label-selected track groups. Only those tracks within the group will play. This enhances preload time and processing time because all un-selected tracks are bypassed completely. Use this option in place of soloing for an instant and quick repeated playback within a complex session. Press [Ctrl] when activating playback, to bypass the selection and play all tracks leaving the selection group intact. You may also freely select tracks while playback is active for use with layer switching.


An example:[INDENT]label-select and number-select several tracks
hit 'k'
[/INDENT]
...regions are cut on all (but only) number-selected tracks (regardless of label-selection).


So,

• Number-selecting allows you to do simultaneous edits - but only on those tracks. Playback is also limited to selected tracks.
• Label-selected tracks will playback in addition to any number-selected tracks. This allows you to listen to various subsets of tracks - or the full mix.

(The multitrack and mixer view title-bar right-click menus have various 'select alls' to speed track selection.)

Edit: changed bolded text for a clear description.

jmh wrote:... Press [Ctrl] when activating playback, to bypass the selection and play all tracks leaving the selection group intact. ...

Wow! There's one that I missed... and I've been a big fan of channel/track groups for years.

My head hurts

richswit wrote:My head hurts

indeed, because this is all text

if we were all in the same room at the same time, might get to the bottom of it more quickly
alas...that won't be happening
a video tutorial would be helpful

That said, grouping tracks in the MT window>
starting by number selecting :-)
should get close to what you wanted to do in your OP
you'll just have to first make the groups

If you were to try your group creation in a mixer window, depending upon how your navigation links are set in the Mixer menu...you may well not get the result you want

I thought you wanted to see a selection of tracks on in one F-Key view...grouping will allow you to do that fairly easily
as long as your f-key track height accommodates all the tracks in your groups

we just all learned new stuff along the way! =-D

aaaaand it is kinda easy to get confused with this subject

jmh wrote:*** Aha! Starting to see the answer to the difference between multitrack label-select and number-select question (these two bits from manual):

* Whenever tracks are selected using the Label Display zone, the tracks are not included in group editing functions, but are only active as special playback groups.

* MultiTrack playback is responsive to both number-selected and label-selected track groups. Only those tracks within the group will play. This enhances preload time and processing time because all un-selected tracks are bypassed completely. Use this option in place of soloing for an instant and quick repeated playback within a complex session. Press [Ctrl] when activating playback, to bypass the selection and play all tracks leaving the selection group intact. You may also freely select tracks while playback is active for use with layer switching.


An example:[INDENT]label-select and number-select several tracks
hit 'k'
[/INDENT]
...regions are cut on all (but only) number-selected tracks (regardless of label-selection).


So,

• Number-selecting allows you to do simultaneous edits - but only on those tracks. Playback is also limited to selected tracks.
• Label-selected tracks will playback in addition to any number-selected tracks. This allows you to listen to various subsets of tracks - or the full mix.

(The multitrack and mixer view title-bar right-click menus have various 'select alls' to speed track selection.)

Edit: changed bolded text for a clear description.

ok, thanks for this!

Todd R wrote:Dave, do you have an explanation as to what is the purpose/ functionality of Label groups? Is there a label naming benefit or something?

IIRC, label selection is a way to specify which tracks will playback, but without edit operations affecting anything but the hottrack. It can be pretty handy. While grouping selected track numbers in the MT would be for listening to and/or editing different combinations of tracks en masse, grouping selected track labels would be for listening to different combinations of tracks while, perhaps, editing a single track. That's all I can think of.

Or is it just for selecting words rather than numbers?

Nope.

cuz users can have either numbers or labels or both per track in the MT

I beg your pardon? Do you mean "...can have either numbers or labels or both selected per track... ? True. The ability to have both selected at the same time would appear to be a design oversight that should be trapped for since you can't both include and exclude the same track from "en masse editing operations." Unless I'm missing something, I'd say what should happen is that when you select one (number or label) on a track that already has the other selected, whether manually or by invoking group recall, that other selection should toggle off.

I wonder which one takes priority. A little experimentation would tell us. I'm gonna guess track number selection functionality is king.

and, again, you are mainly talking about the MT window in this post :-)

I suppose so, since mixer windows don't have selectable labels. Is this problematic?

jmh wrote:What does label-selection allow you to do?

Play back selected tracks while editing a single, selected track (or not).

Dave Labrecque wrote:... The ability to have both selected at the same time would appear to be a design oversight that should be trapped for since you can't both include and exclude the same track from "en masse editing operations." Unless I'm missing something, I'd say what should happen is that when you select one (number or label) on a track that already has the other selected, whether manually or by invoking group recall, that other selection should toggle off.

I wonder which one takes priority. A little experimentation would tell us. I'm gonna guess track number selection functionality is king...

Personally, I see the current behavior as a plus.
Granted, I might not take advantage of it often, But I can see how toggling two overlapping groups (say, track numbers 1-4, track labels 3-8, with various drum mics...) could allow for some convenient A/B comparing, or to be able to edit regions and/or automation of one group, while listening to the entire group. I'm sure other scenarios would crop up from time to time.

UpTilDawn wrote:I can see how toggling two overlapping groups (say, track numbers 1-4, track labels 3-8, with various drum mics...) could allow for some convenient A/B comparing

You don't need both types of selection coexisting on the same track to do this.

or to be able to edit regions and/or automation of one group, while listening to the entire group.

Again, you don't need both types to co-exist on any track(s) for this. Just use number selection for edit "ganging" of tracks and label selection to add the tracks you want to hear but not edit.

I guess it could be inconvenient to have common inter-group tracks toggle selection when a new label group is invoked and added to the existing number selections in the MT and you want the existing edit ganging of tracks to remain intact.


But get this: today I can't save label groups in the MT. What's up with that? I thought for sure I'd been able to do that a couple days ago. :confused:

Dave Labrecque wrote:...
But get this: today I can't save label groups in the MT. What's up with that? I thought for sure I'd been able to do that a couple days ago. :confused:

No, No.... no can do.
Only manipulate after saved as number groups.