3 Questions (Zero a fader, move in timeline, plugin/playback focus)

[jmh]

Hi,

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Right clicking in the top portion (or any free space) of SAW plugins definitely works, playback starts. However, here at least, it doesn't work with various VST plugins I tried. I'm in SAWStudio64 on Win 8.1 Pro if that makes any difference. Even clicking the very top frame of a VST plugin does not engage playback here.

This is not really a problem as I can get used to clicking in the MT window to start playback, even though it's a bit cumbersome, but if this is not the expected behaviour it would be nice to work out why I'm seeing it here.

I think it is because saw has no knowledge of the clicks an keys that can be utilized within a particular plugin, so when that is on top, it gets everything.

Just as an example to show what I mean with the timeline/cursor playback problem, if I start playback and I'm 'zoomed out full' so I can see the whole waveform, when clicking somewhere else along the timeline the cursor will jump there and play back from there. Good. However if I am zoomed in to the timeline/waveform any amount, and let it scroll through a few pages (probably using the wrong SAW terminology here), then clicking anywhere in the timeline will not take me to that place but will start back somewhere around the original playback position.

It appears like the original 'page' of the waveform where I begin playback is still 'active' underneath even after the timeline has scrolled through several pages; when clicking the timeline, even if it is a minute or two after the original play position (and says so in the timeline) it will jump playback to the original position.

Kind of easier to see it than to describe it in words.

Ah now I see what you are saying. There are no provisions at all for scrolling during playback, but you are hitting one of the oddities. Saw doesn't bother to refresh when the waveform would be flashing by so fast to be useless and wasting cpu. I think all you can really do is do a quick zoom-in zoom out to recenter the playback cursor - but (other than that one situation) it is always going to be on the multitrack display during playback.

That said, you have to be careful when you say 'only' about this program because you continue to discover features that you didn't know - or forgot were there.

[UpTilDawn]

Hi,
...
Just as an example to show what I mean with the timeline/cursor playback problem, if I start playback and I'm 'zoomed out full' so I can see the whole waveform, when clicking somewhere else along the timeline the cursor will jump there and play back from there. Good. However if I am zoomed in to the timeline/waveform any amount, and let it scroll through a few pages (probably using the wrong SAW terminology here), then clicking anywhere in the timeline will not take me to that place but will start back somewhere around the original playback position.

It appears like the original 'page' of the waveform where I begin playback is still 'active' underneath even after the timeline has scrolled through several pages; when clicking the timeline, even if it is a minute or two after the original play position (and says so in the timeline) it will jump playback to the original position.

Kind of easier to see it than to describe it in words.

An example of usage would be I am looking for a piece of dialogue to edit, I play through, and when I find the part I want I click there and instead of playing back from there it goes back and plays from the previous play position, or nearabouts, and I lose both the position of the new dialogue and the original playback position.

...

Unless I misunderstand your example, I cannot seem to duplicate what you've described.

I can zoom in to any level, click on the timeline before, or after the moving cursor (during the visible "page") and playback picks up/continues from wherever I've clicked.

Is there some preference setting that's different on my system than on yours, maybe? I don't know. I think most of my mouse and multitrack menu settings are default in SAW (on this pc).

[UpTilDawn]

... Saw doesn't bother to refresh when the waveform would be flashing by so fast to be useless and wasting cpu. I think all you can really do is do a quick zoom-in zoom out to recenter the playback cursor - but (other than that one situation) it is always going to be on the multitrack display during playback.
...

I'm afraid I don't understand what you've said here.

SAW continually refreshes the MT waveform display no matter how fast it zips by, unless I've purposely zoomed in enough to make it stop moving. This is one of the reasons I seldom keep it zoomed out enough to zip by my gaze, but rather zoom out enough to see more real estate at one time, or zoom way in to keep the cursor in position and the waveform static. It's nauseating to see the waveform zipping by.

[UpTilDawn]

...
Right clicking in the top portion (or any free space) of SAW plugins definitely works, playback starts. However, here at least, it doesn't work with various VST plugins I tried. I'm in SAWStudio64 on Win 8.1 Pro if that makes any difference. Even clicking the very top frame of a VST plugin does not engage playback here.

...

I just tried a dozen or more 3rd party plugins active in a current project and did not encounter this issue.

I did notice, however, that the SAW border is clearly visible and is thick enough to contain the blue triangle (where certain menu items are located) and the blue rectangle to close the plugin. That is more than sufficient space to identify where to right-click to start/stop playback.

Are you not seeing this border?
Could your Windows border padding settings have something to do with the issue? - taking a wild guess.

I'm on Windows 10, on desktop computers, but I believe the laptops act the same way (both Win7 and Win10).

[jmh]

...unless I've purposely zoomed in enough to make it stop moving.

I'm pretty sure that is what Mark is talking about. I think he is trying to navigate while that is the case.

[jmh]

>I'm afraid I don't understand what you've said here.

>>Saw doesn't bother to refresh when the waveform would be flashing by so fast to be useless and wasting cpu. I think all you can really do is do a quick zoom-in zoom out to recenter the playback cursor - but (other than that one situation) it is always going to be on the multitrack display during playback.

I am afraid you are right and that isn't very clear. That should read:

I think all you can really do is do regarding positioning the waveform during playback is a quick zoom-in zoom out to recenter the playback cursor - but (other than the full zoom situation) the playback cursor is always going to be on the multitrack display during playback.

Are all of my posts that incoherent?

[Mark R]

I'm pretty sure that is what Mark is talking about. I think he is trying to navigate while that is the case.

Actually no I'm not zoomed in that much. I am zoomed in arbitrarily enough that the playhead moves across the screen left to right once every 10 seconds or so and then the page updates/refreshes.

[Mark R]

I just tried a dozen or more 3rd party plugins active in a current project and did not encounter this issue.

I did notice, however, that the SAW border is clearly visible and is thick enough to contain the blue triangle (where certain menu items are located) and the blue rectangle to close the plugin. That is more than sufficient space to identify where to right-click to start/stop playback.

Are you not seeing this border?
Could your Windows border padding settings have something to do with the issue? - taking a wild guess.

I'm on Windows 10, on desktop computers, but I believe the laptops act the same way (both Win7 and Win10).

Hi,

Thank you for your ideas here. I've clicked all around that top border and even on the top 'frame' of the plugin. Now that you mention it, I think you may be onto something with the border padding setting, I did change this at one point to fix a problem where border padding is not rendered correctly. I'll have a look into this.

Cheers

[Mark R]

Unless I misunderstand your example, I cannot seem to duplicate what you've described.

I can zoom in to any level, click on the timeline before, or after the moving cursor (during the visible "page") and playback picks up/continues from wherever I've clicked.

Is there some preference setting that's different on my system than on yours, maybe? I don't know. I think most of my mouse and multitrack menu settings are default in SAW (on this pc).

That's great to hear. So it should be working as you described. Let me have a think and a look at my settings, there may be something I've changed that could be related. Not that a setting should really be causing this kind of a problem/behaviour though.

[Mark R]

Hi,

Thank you for your ideas here. I've clicked all around that top border and even on the top 'frame' of the plugin. Now that you mention it, I think you may be onto something with the border padding setting, I did change this at one point to fix a problem where border padding is not rendered correctly. I'll have a look into this.

Cheers

Well, that was easy. Not border padding but there is a 'Disable Right-Mouse-Btn Engine Toggle' setting in the MultiTrack menu! Not sure if that is set on by default but can't remember setting that. Funny that it doesn't appear to disable right click playback in SAW plugins but only VSTs and the MT window.

Now right clicking in the top bar of VST plugins works as it should.

2 down one to go!

Cheers

[UpTilDawn]

Well, that was easy. Not border padding but there is a 'Disable Right-Mouse-Btn Engine Toggle' setting in the MultiTrack menu! Not sure if that is set on by default but can't remember setting that. Funny that it doesn't appear to disable right click playback in SAW plugins but only VSTs and the MT window.

Now right clicking in the top bar of VST plugins works as it should.

2 down one to go!

Cheers

Awesome!
I'd never even thought about that one. Glad to know now.

[jmh]

Actually no I'm not zoomed in that much. I am zoomed in arbitrarily enough that the playhead moves across the screen left to right once every 10 seconds or so and then the page updates/refreshes.

Got it. On re-read I see you said 'it' scrolls rather than 'you'.

I don't use the timeline (other than to look at) very frequently other than occasional marking - normally that is b, e & c. I'm wondering if way back I didn't relate well with a mouse on the timeline. In any case, whenever possible I use hot-keys rather than mousing.

For moving in time, I tend to stop transport with space-bar and either click on the waveform or more often; tab, shift-tab through regions. Control track cues are really handy to move around with you can tab through them or click on them too - also during playback. ctrl-l/r-arrows are handy to snap to marked beginning or end. The locate points can be used too. Home key.

[Mark R]

Right. Three down. I feel a bit dumb though as I should have clocked this one a bit sooner!

The 'cursor / playback position' thing is related to the AutoRewind button (green arrows) option in the transport. This makes playback return to the original position after you stop. I had set this on as I usually like to return to the start position for auditioning edits/regions/clips, or making adjustments to EQ etc. It seems obvious now but I hadn't realised these two things were related. When clicking anywhere along the timeline during play, with this setting engaged, it almost acts like a 'stop' and tries to return to the original position. In fact if you hold your mouse pointer at the exact location of that start point, it will go back to that point. If you move the pointer it will go to a slightly different place. Interesting behaviour.

Anyway, this is working now and I understand it. Clicking a position along the timeline in playback, with AutoRewind off, now takes me to that position.

Thanks to UpTilDawn who said this should be how it works, and everyone else with your good advice. I'll remember to use that setting only when needed and not as a static setting as I had it set. The manual actually says this can be activated/deactivated during playback which is great.

Cheers!
Mark

[UpTilDawn]

...
In fact if you hold your mouse pointer at the exact location of that start point, it will go back to that point. If you move the pointer it will go to a slightly different place. Interesting behaviour...

Ha! This is so interesting to me, because I've actually never engaged the auto rewind button. Instead, doing exactly what you've described here on a regular basis... I might have to see how using the rewind button can benefit my workflow now.

[Mark R]

Yeah it's actually really useful having that button right there in the transport to quickly switch between the two behaviours. I can't remember it being that easy and prominent in other DAWs.. At least Reaper, and probably Samplitude, Cubase, etc, bury that setting in a Preferences window somewhere pretty deep. I used these DAWs a lot (still do) before getting more into SAW and that might explain why I 'set it and forgot it'!

It's cool that SAWStudio has some real depth to it that takes a fair while to figure out but when you do it all just seems really intuitive.

[Mark R]

For moving in time, I tend to stop transport with space-bar and either click on the waveform or more often; tab, shift-tab through regions. Control track cues are really handy to move around with you can tab through them or click on them too - also during playback. ctrl-l/r-arrows are handy to snap to marked beginning or end. The locate points can be used too. Home key.

Thank you, this is all great info. I do like Tab as well to move to region beginnings/ends. I'll have to look more into the Control track, never really used that.

Also love the ZBK, ZEK workflow (which I think you also mentioned, jmh) to mark and cut out regions at zero crossings. Very slick.

Cheers

[jmh]

It's cool that SAWStudio has some real depth to it that takes a fair while to figure out but when you do it all just seems really intuitive.

You can do most anything without too many hurtles - the high one is knowing it all - because after decades, I'm still asking these question and picking things up from these threads.

Also love the ZBK, ZEK workflow (which I think you also mentioned, jmh) to mark and cut out regions at zero crossings. Very slick

I didn't mention z&k but have to agree. u is a fantastic key to tweak region borders if you are not a user...

[Mark R]

You can do most anything without too many hurtles - the high one is knowing it all - because after decades, I'm still asking these question and picking things up from these threads.

I didn't mention z&k but have to agree. u is a fantastic key to tweak region borders if you are not a user...

Sweet! I've been using Alt+Drag but U is very slick.

Cheers

[Todd R]

Control Track is a godsend for long form. I use the location points for "chapters" and Control track for all kinds of things- very often for a list of fixes/ to do. I also use Control track for VST engage/ bypass automation notes. Since VST automation has no way to show which VST the automation event relates to beyond the engaged/ bypass state of the VST, it is easy to get lost very fast. Using the control track can help identify what the automation events are doing. It's completely manual, yet has saved me often.

I never use the AutoRewind...like, never

ctrl+TAB / ctrl+shift+TAB to automation events is the bread and butter of SAWStudio!

[Todd R]

1- Left/Right click on the fader with the mouse will zero the fader (or faders when part of a group).

20+ years and I never learned this until now; Thanks for this