next rig

[mako]

>snip<
I am curious how much laptop I'd need to buy to run 24 channels SAC and leave the rack PC home.

Just an idea.

I'm using an Acer Extensa 5620 Core 2 duo 1.8 Mhz 2 Gig ram XP Pro SP1 (on dual boot using "BootUS").
PC Express card runs RME Digiface to 2 ADA8000's and a Creamware A16 giving a total of 24 I/O.

A recent CM festival I did used 6x64 buffers with no problem over 2 long days.

cheers

mako

[HapHazzard]

After some more of the comments added heres my run at a "standardized" process that probably suits most rigs.

We run 2 mix sessions in SAC:
1) 12 audio tracks active
2) 24 Audio tracks active

(we can go higher track count, but iI figure we will be limited on participation - I am personally limited to 24 tracks)

On all tracks eq, comp, gate, and the SAW reverb in the pre-fader slot.

We we run each at 2 3 buffer settings - 2-128 and 2-64.

We then post following rig info:

• Motherboard (for laptop or off the shelf rigs you wont know) - brand and model
• Processor - model at speed running at (for those who overclock)
• Memory - brand, type, amount and speed
• OS Hard Drive - model, RPM
• Operating System
• Audio Device

SAC detail

• Audio driver type used.

Performance

CPU usage for each file at each buffer setting - so if we go with the above recommendations we post 4 results

1. 12 tracks 2-128 buffers
2. 12 tracks 2-64 buffers
3. 24 tracks 2-128 buffers
4. 24 tracks 2-64 buffers

FYI - personally I have an 8 space rack with my PC in a 4 space rack, 2 space slide out 15" server rack monitor, and a server keyboard tray. And the thing is heavier then all get up. So I am really looking for scaling back to a laptop or lightened 1 space Rack PC. I'd love to run 2-64 on 24 tracks - but am unsure how much laptop I'd have to buy.

I'll talk to Steve with Tesla and see if they are close to where I could load SAC in from of the SAW session. 40 channels of Loud Rock!

Of course you'll have to wait until I get the new MB and with the Hollydaze here. Might be early Jan.

Hap

[Fat Cat Music]

Hello,
I am not convinced the newest, latest and greatest is totally needed.
I have a Dell C840 2.4 ghz with 2gb memory with two card slots that I have used with two RME digiface and six ADA8000s all summer long with no problems at all.
I changed out the slow hard drive for a Seagate 7200 rpm 200gb drive to take care of that bottleneck for recording. I have no other software on the computer than SAW and SAC.
I did two shows that required 42 and 43 channels each with absolutely no glitches.
I have used it with SAWStudio and SAWpro both with no problems what so ever.
I do not use any USB peripherals and I only use firewire for back up.

If it ain't broke don't fix it!

DRBurroughs

[txshonk]

If anyone is interested - and I hope others want to play. I created 2 files a 12 track and 24 track with EQ, Comp, and Gate active on each channel. Both tracks have all 24 mixes active with the Src Split as the input with EQ, Comp, and Gate active. I attached the sessions in a zip file for those that are willing to share how their systems perform.

Heres my reults:

12 Channel - 2/64 buffer - 43%
12 Channel - 2/128 buffer - 33%
24 Channel - 2/64 buffer - 88%
24 Channel - 2/128 buffer - 70%

Rig Details
Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
Processor - Intel Q6600 at 3.24 gHz
Memory - 4g Ballistix 800Mhz DDR
OS Hard Drive - Raptor 74gb 10,000 RPM
Operating System - Windows XP SP3
Audio Device - RME 9652
SAC driver type - ASIO

[HapHazzard]

What is the format of the file (mxs)
Hap

[txshonk]

yes sir - mxs

[HapHazzard]

yes sir - mxs

What do you open it with.

[Bob L]

Hap... this is the SAC Mix Session format... just use the File Open Mix Session function.

Bob L

[HapHazzard]

Hap... this is the SAC Mix Session format... just use the File Open Mix Session function.

Bob L

OOOOOhhhhh Opps!

[Trackzilla]

Here's the 'txshonk stress test' results of my 1U 32 bit box, it lives in a 3 space rack with a 1U KVM drawer ans a MOTU 24i, and then gets used currently with a second monitor and a second rack that houses the 2408s & the ada8000s I will soon have a 64 Bit box to test as the remote FOH box for use with the multitouch display (it awaits $$ for the OS, and which of these two boxes does which job may swap after final testing) and will try in the next few weeks to temporarily drop SAC on a few other boxes around here for the express purpose of testing & posting the results.

Motherboard - ASUS P5N-EM HDMI
Processor - Core2Duo e8500 @ 3.16 GHz
Memory - 4GB SuperTalent PC6400 800Mhz DDR2 Certified SPD Dual Channel Kit
OS Hard Drive - Magnetic Data White Label 250GB 7200 RPM SATA
OS - XP Pro SP3
Audio Device - MOTU 424 PCI/2408 MKll
SAC driver type - ASIO
12 CH - 2/32 - 60%
12 CH - 2/64 - 38%
12 CH - 2/128 - 30%
24 ch - 2/64 - 76%
24 CH - 2/128 - 60%
This box is stable with moderate track counts at 1x32 buffers (16Ch-5mon+FOH mixes tested live)

[DominicPerry]

Here's the 'txshonk stress test' results of my 1U 32 bit box, it lives in a 3 space rack with a 1U KVM drawer ans a MOTU 24i, and then gets used currently with a second monitor and a second rack that houses the 2408s & the ada8000s I will soon have a 64 Bit box to test as the remote FOH box for use with the multitouch display (it awaits $$ for the OS, and which of these two boxes does which job may swap after final testing) and will try in the next few weeks to temporarily drop SAC on a few other boxes around here for the express purpose of testing & posting the results.

Motherboard - ASUS P5N-EM HDMI
Processor - Core2Duo e8500 @ 3.16 GHz
Memory - 4GB SuperTalent PC6400 800Mhz DDR2 Certified SPD Dual Channel Kit
OS Hard Drive - Magnetic Data White Label 250GB 7200 RPM SATA
OS - XP Pro SP3
Audio Device - MOTU 424 PCI/2408 MKll
SAC driver type - ASIO
12 CH - 2/32 - 60%
12 CH - 2/64 - 38%
12 CH - 2/128 - 30%
24 ch - 2/64 - 76%
24 CH - 2/128 - 60%
This box is stable with moderate track counts at 1x32 buffers (16Ch-5mon+FOH mixes tested live)

Mr T Zilla,

Three things:
1) Thanks for the results
2) Historically, MOTU interfaces haven't had the best drivers, so I would expect better results from the same rig with an RME interface.
3) Are you sure that 64 bit OS works ok with SAC? And do you have 64 bit drivers for the MOTU? I'm not convinced that things will be any faster on a 64 bit rig - I can't see why they would be unless with SAC needed more memory than a 32bit OS can give it (2GB - unlikely. I've never seen SAC get this high) or the 64 bit drivers happen to be better written than the 32 bit ones, which is pot luck.

Dominic

[Trackzilla]

2) I already have a tidy investment in MOTU (1 PCI424, 2x PCI324 cards, and 2x 24i and 2x 2408 mkll interfaces) so for the time being that's what I'll use. It's obviously doing the trick nicely as is evidenced by the CPU consumption being slightly lower across the board than txshonks despite his quad core, slightly higher CPU clock, and faster HD. Eventually I may sell a couple of em to fund an RME card since everyone seems to agree that they are notably superior, but at that time I would also have to recase the computers...no way I can fit 72 ch of adat ins into a 1U case with RME unless I'm missing something (feel encouraged to point me to the right RME units if I'm wrong)
3) I do have the 64 bit drivers for the 424 card. I asked if SAC would run in 64 bit XP here a while ago, never got an answer though and can't even seem to find that post now, but since the box already has 8gb of RAM I figured I might as well find out myself. I don't really expect that box to outstrip my current one, but that isn't the official reason I built it. On the other hand, eventually I plan to be running SAC/SAW setup, at that point the extra mound of RAM may be handy dontcha think?

[DominicPerry]

2) I already have a tidy investment in MOTU (1 PCI424, 2x PCI324 cards, and 2x 24i and 2x 2408 mkll interfaces) so for the time being that's what I'll use. It's obviously doing the trick nicely as is evidenced by the CPU consumption being slightly lower across the board than txshonks despite his quad core, slightly higher CPU clock, and faster HD. Eventually I may sell a couple of em to fund an RME card since everyone seems to agree that they are notably superior, but at that time I would also have to recase the computers...no way I can fit 72 ch of adat ins into a 1U case with RME unless I'm missing something (feel encouraged to point me to the right RME units if I'm wrong)
3) I do have the 64 bit drivers for the 424 card. I asked if SAC would run in 64 bit XP here a while ago, never got an answer though and can't even seem to find that post now, but since the box already has 8gb of RAM I figured I might as well find out myself. I don't really expect that box to outstrip my current one, but that isn't the official reason I built it. On the other hand, eventually I plan to be running SAC/SAW setup, at that point the extra mound of RAM may be handy dontcha think?

Fair point on your MOTU investment, I can't guarantee that you'll get better performance with RME, I just expect that you will. The RME RayDAT is 4xADAT in 4xADAT out - 32 channels total - it's a PCIe card. I don't know how many PCI/PCIe slots you have in your 1U case, but if it's one, which I guess it is, your only option is MADI, which is expensive.
The speed of your hard disk is not going to influence the performance of SAC. The quad core which is being used elsewhere, whilst having extra horsepower, may not achieve the low latencies you are getting from a dual core due to the threading issues Bob frequently mentions.
I still don't know how much RAM SAC and SAW together need, perhaps Bob can chime in, I think he may be able to give you a figure for 72 tracks of SAC feeding 48 ins on SAW. And of course, if you want to run other things like VSTi's the extra RAM may come in handy. Personally, I suspect it will be a disaster, I'm just concerned that you will spend a lot of cash on 64 bit windows, and a lot of time, and get nothing back for it. But if you fancy blazing the trail, I'm sure people will be grateful.

Dominic

[txshonk]

Trackzilla -

I am really glad to see another post on results - looking at your results sounds like you got a great machine going in a 3 space rack.

Just to let you know you definitely provided me with food for thought:
1) For SAC mobility I been contemplating a laptop - my rig is stuck in an 8 space and weighs way too much. I went economical on the KVM - older gear - the monitor is an old 2U 15" compac and keyboard is 1U - alone they weigh too much. Ebayed for about $200 so no major complaints. Looked at short depth 17" Monitor 1U cheapest I have found is round $800 - I am curious if you had any recomendations.
2) I also think its great to see you get better performance out of a DUO thats not overclocked - I have had overheat concerns with overclocking and playing a Texas summer outdoor gig.

Again thanks a bunch for talking the time to run that.

Dave

[mycorn]

as one might expect-

my celeron 2.7G with 760M pretty mych flat lined
upon engauging the benchmarks
[RME 9652 w/ V1.3 hardware]

i didn even attempt to listen to audio as
outbuffers started slipping immeadiatly

however as a further testimonial to the software
even tho it gaged completely [3-5 second delays in the video]
it never locked up

for the garage band crowd recycling your old gamer-
i found a matched set of kingston 512's
and a P4 2.0G processor for $20 each

even loosing the processor speed it took my
18 input x 5 mix template from 75%+ down to +/-67% load

funny how 4 times the cache crunches numbers a bit better...

while i dont intend to invest any more money in this
older technology it does work great for what it is
and will remain as a backup at least thru the off season...

[fwiw]

[Bob L]

Ok... don't mean to spoil the party here... but... the EQ ON imparts no load on the cpu when none of the bands are used... to test the eq load, you must move the bands off the center position into some boost or cut.

Next... the comps and gates must also be triggering... otherwise the load is not real.

Next... let's use a more realistic session... the idea being that each of the monitor mixes would save radically on eq by using the pst eq split tap as a general setup... only then would a few chans be tweaked with a few bands of added eq changes for those few complaining musicians.

Bob L

[ffarrell]

HI

Our CIA systems are doing 9 consoles with 48 inputs and a standard use of EQ - Gates - Comps - and FX's with ease.

We are for anyone who likes hi end point and shoot cameras

thanks
fvf